DyeStat Page 1

Nike Indoor Classic Challenges NSI

Internet Discussion of the Two Meets

Jim Spier and Mike Byrnes, founders of the National Scholastic Indoor championships, announced (11/25/98) a new national indoor meet for "the outstanding high school track and field athlete."  The Nike Indoor Classic, sponsored by Nike and the National Scholastic Sports Foundation (NSSF), will run in Columbus, Ohio March 13-14, 1999, the same dates as NSI in Boston.  Spier and Byrnes fell out last year with the current NSI sponsor, the Metropolitan Athletics Congress of New York.   NSSF runs the highly successful National Scholastic Outdoor championships in Raleigh each June.

The announcement sparked immediate reaction, both pro and con, on the t-and-f and coach-net Internet mailing lists.  This page will collect the discussions.  If you want to add your comments, send email to [email protected].

Pro

Con

Just Talking About It

Pro - arguments for the new meet

Parents have right to give new birth

From: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, November 28, 1998 11:55 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Response!!

"The men who created, planted the seed, motivated the birth, originated,
fathered, the meet that happened to land at Reggie Lewis have decided to take
their creation and give a new birth elsewhere. I think they have that right.
How can they be "watering" down what was "usurped" from their control and
guidance. Perhaps the one of you (any of you) look at Reggie Lewis should be
the one to bow and move aside rather than the one that is being given
"rebirth".
Bob Burdette"

Great - only 90 minute drive

From: CRISS SOMERLOT [[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 10:01 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: 1999 Nike Indoor Classic

JIM- GREAT
I WILL BE GETTING BACK FROM WORLD CHAMPS IN JAPAN THAT WEEK BUT WILL BRING KIDS TO THE MEET
THIS WILL BE GREAT.  LET ME KNOW IF I MAY BE OF ANY HELP - IF YOU NEED A THROWS REF, ETC OR WHATEVER,
THIS IS ONLY 90 MIN DRIVE FOR RITA AND I.  SEE YOU IN ORLANDO

CRISS SOMERLOT

Ohio is more affordable

From: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, November 27, 1998 9:33 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Nike Indoor Meet

I believe this meet will give children that don’t have the financial means to get to Boston an opportunity to showcase their talent in a high caliber indoor meet. In the past the NSSF has shown the ability and expertise necessary to make sure the top athletes have a venue to participate indoors. Ohio is definitely more affordable than Boston. We’ll see you in March.

Darrell Hampton
(The LuckiDuck)

Con - arguments against the new meet

This pissing match will "divide the sport"

From: Steve Vaitones [[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 12:21 PM
Subject: t-and-f: RE: 1999 Nike Indoor Classic - Good or bad for the sport?

Well, this explains the calls my office has received regarding the “move” of the National Scholastic Indoor meet from Boston (which is, as far as my copy of the Reggie Lewis Facility schedule notes, still on March 13-14)  While another showcase for high schoolers is a noble effort, what is this going to accomplish? It waters down any type of “National” titles with two meets on the same weekend. Will attendance come down to travel costs, and if so, when do we expect the Golden West Indoor to complete the geographic spread?

Nike sponsored at least the uniforms at the Boston meet the past two years. Reason for the split? Or are they doing both?
Are we to liken the two meets to NCAA / NAIA? NCAA DI/II/III?, USATF vs AAU Junior Olympics? For those with the longer memories, AAU vs USTFF?  Or as we say in New England, a good old fashioned pissing match?

I am not a pitchman for the Boston meet, as our association is only marginally involved and receives no financial return on the meet; and, the outdoor scholastic meet is one of the best events around for HSers. But it seems that this type of conflict usually does more to divide the  sport than conquer the sport’s shortcomings.
Steve Vaitones
(Opinions are my own and not those of USATF New England)

It will just confuse the kids and coaches

From: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: t-and-f: Nike Indoor Classic - Why??

As Steve Viatones has said, why the need for “two national championships” during the indoor season?? this sounds like Spier/Byrnes and Co....and the MAC people have had a falling out, and decided to “see who are the bigger power brokers”..... I can’t see how this helps get the best teams on the track at the same time etc... sounds like it will just confuse the kids and coaches, and become a game of who can get who to come to their meet, who will pay for what/or give you this or that. The beauty of the meet was lace ‘em up and settle it on the track.............and I thought these guys were grown ups?
whatever-nick
I’m taking my BATON and going home..................................

Spiers not friendly to Canadians

From: enver carolissen [[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 1998 5:34 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Nike Indoor Meet

Hmmmmm,

I don’t know how this meet will fair compared to the NSI in Boston. The standards seem lower in certain events, however the NSI Indoor meet has always been kind enough to allow talented northerners (Canadians) a chance to showdown against the best U.S. high schoolers. This is a meet Canadian high schoolers look forward to.

As for Jim Spiers moving to Columbus with his meet, well alls I can say is that he did not let any Canadians into his ‘98 NS outdoor meet in Raleigh, so he probably will again not let us into his Columbus meet. Oh well, off to Boston we go again in March.

Enver Carolissen, horizontal jumps coach

If Canadians want to compete, come to the Penn Relays

From: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 1998 12:03 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Additionally!

I would additionally say to Mr. Enver Carolissen that if he really wants to have Canadians compete against the Class Athletes of the USA, and also Jamaica, Cayman Islands, Ireland, etc. I invite him to participate in the Penn Relays. He (they), however, should be ready to compete BIG TIME, the show is “prime time” as far as performances.

Bob Burdette
Secondary Schools Chairman
Penn Relays

Ohio is too far from New York

From: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 1998 5:43 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: national local

i am writing in response to the recent nationals location suggestions. last year i had the privelege of attending winter track nationals last year in boston. it was an experience i will never forget. if nationals are in ohio this year there is no chance that my teammates and i will be able to compete. with all the hard work it takes to make it to nationals, it would be horrible not to be able to attend simply because our families cannot afford to send us away so far from new york. i beleive many high school track runners feel the same way and are in the same postition. it would be a shame if talented athletes missed out on this once in a life time event. please consider this when choosing this years location. thank you very much.

sincerely,
beth mihalick

Just Talking About It

NSI is where the action will be

From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: 1999 NATIONAL SCHOLASTIC INDOOR T&F CHAMPIONSHIPS

The letter below is forwarded to you at the request of Dorothy Clinton, President of the Metropolitan Athletics Congress who is not a subscriber to the list. It should be of interest to those of you involved with High School athletics. Stella Cashman

1999 NATIONAL SCHOLASTIC INDOOR T&F CHAMPIONSHIPS
As the president of the Metropolitan Athletics Congress (MAC), I want to assure everyone that the 1999 National Scholastic Indoor T&F Championships will take place March 13 & 14, at the Reggie Lewis Track & Athletic Center, Boston, Massachusetts. The MAC is the  organization that has presented this meet from its inception in 1984. Most of the original personnel are still on board. There were some changes in 1998, and the meet was better than ever. The name “National Scholastic T&F Championships” is registered to the MAC and is  the only such championship.

Some Olympic medalists, who as young athletes competed in NSI T&F Championships include, Derick Atkins, Randy Barnes, Kim Batten, Alto Bolden, Tonya Buford, Hollis Conway, Calvin Davis, Kim Graham, Carlette Guidry, Darnell Hall, Allen Jones, Esther Jones, Steve Lewis,
Maicel Malone, Dennis Mitchell, and Janeen Vickers. Many others went on to compete as Olympic and World Champion athletes (including Marion Jones). For the athletes/coaches who are seeking a proven, quality meet, steeped in a rich history and tradition at a first rate facility,
this is the place to be (and be seen). This is where the action will be. There is only one National Scholastics Championships.

Any meet that serves our young athletes is a good thing. Alternate meets can serve the many young people who do not qualify for the National Scholastic Championships (or choose not to compete). I hope this clarifies the situation, and assists you in making your decision to attend
the longstanding MAC sponsored NSC meet.

Dorothy Clinton
President,
The Metropolitan Athletics Congress
e-mail to: [email protected]
Tel: 212/227-0071 Fax: 212/227-0756

PS. We will be keeping you updated on the meet at our website at, http://www.mactrack.org/

8' girls PV is not "outstanding"; What is the Rationale for this Meet?

From: [email protected] on behalf of Roger Ruth [[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 5:54 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: t-and-f: Nike Indoor Classic - Why??

My “why?” has a slightly different focus than earlier ones. The announcement of the meet, minus the formatting, began:
Nike and the National Scholastic Sports Foundation are proud to introduce THE NIKE INDOOR CLASSIC for the outstanding high school track and field athlete.  My eye was drawn to the entry standard for the women’s pole vault--8 feet! I wonder whose idea it is, that this denotes a competition for “the outstanding high school track and field athlete.” It seems more to me like “anyone who might care to show up.”   A draft 1998 U.S. Women’s vault list, compiled by Chris Kuykendall, arrived in my morning mail. It shows 26 U.S. high school women at 11’ 5 � or better.  I don’t have a similar listing for U.S. high school men, but I suspect the 13’ standard there is equally inappropriate. Are others as bad? If so, what is the rationale for this meet?
Cheers,
Roger

Spier's rationale for 8' girls PV

From: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 1998 9:42 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: t-and-f: Nike Indoor Classic - Why??

The 8’ entry standard is not one without precedent. As the person who developed the entry standards for the NSI from 1984 through 1997, and those for the NSO from 1991 through 1998, I can predict, with some accuracy, how many will be in the fields each year based on the entry standard. Indeed, the entry standard for the 1998 National Scholastic Indoor Track and FIeld Championship for the pole vault, according to their entry blank, was 8’6’ for marks attained in the 1997-98 indoor season and 8’0’ for that of the 1997 outdoor season. Whoever developed the entry standards for the NSI for 1998 must have gone through the same exercise, as we are in concurrance. What must be taken into consideration for each event, among other things, are number of returnees, popularity of the event in the geographical area in which event is contested, and interest in the event indoors vs. outdoors. I maintain that a female athlete who can vault 8’ indoors should be considered to be an outstanding one.
Jim Spier

PV: 8' girls too low, 13' boys OK

From: Edward Parrot [[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 8:41 PM
Subject: Re: t-and-f: Nike Indoor Classic - Why??

The 8 foot standard for women does seem weak. But as for the men, I don’t think that 13’ is too unreasonable. On the one hand, 13 feet  won’t get you on the top 100 high school performances for a given year. On the other hand, 13 feet will place in a majority (perhaps a substantial majority) of outdoor state meets. Indoor vaulting suffers from a lack of practice facilities, as well as the fact that many of the best pole vaulting states do not have indoor seasons.  I haven’t seen the official standards, but perhaps there will be some limit on the number of competitors per event.
-Ed Parrot

44' TJ is not outstanding - Is Nike "Dumping"?

From: Dennis Healy [[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: t-and-f: Nike Indoor Classic - Why??

I was equally astonished when I saw the men’s triple jump entry standard of 44’0”.... Allowing athletes of such low calibre into what has been termed a competition “for the outstanding high school track and field athlete” escapes me.. Seems to me that the Nike meet is attempting not to attract those who are considered to be elite, but those who are not good enough to qualify for Indoor Scholastics.. Or is Nike attempting to do something analogous to “dumping”, allowing virtually any above-average entrant to compete, and then start attracting elite athletes after a strong reputation has been established for the meet, in later years? Any Nike rep out there care to shed some light??
Den.
UWindsor 2002 // B.Comm/B.C.S.

Let's Talk About the Important Things

From: Kerin, David [[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, November 30, 1998 9:31 PM
To: '[email protected]'
Subject: NSIC/NIC/NSSF, et al

Since there is no single “czar” to anoint a certain meet as “the indoor HS Championship” isn’t this discussion a moot point? Let each stand on its own merits.

Boston is not an easy place to get to from around the country nor is the Lewis Center located in a safe, visitor friendly location. And yes, Boston is not cheap to overnight in.  Individuals will gravitate to the site/meet/level of competition that they choose.

I think that the more interesting topic centers around the watered down nature of a season filled with multiple championship type events, the constant need/search for a title, the bigger is better philosophy that has taken over track in the US.

There was a great letter in a track magazine a few years back and it contained a fictional exchange between a high school track athlete and a parent following the athletes return home from a meet. It went something like: So, did your team win?  No team scores were kept, it was a invitational How did you do? It doesn’t matter, coach says I am training through this meet and so on...............

As the push to larger meets has grown, the sport has lost much at the entry level. It is as basic as how often do athletes compete at home,  in front of family and friends, and more important, in front of younger future athletes? USATF is said to be wringing its hands over the loss of its bid to host the World Championships, to Canada. This is just another example of missing the boat. The Atlanta Olympics were to be the savior for our sport, and how do you view the state of the sport at present?

A science teacher fills up a jar with big rocks & asks his students, “ Is the jar full?”
They all say yes. Then he takes some gravel & pours it in the jar. Again he asks, “Is the jar full?”
Most say yes. Then he takes some sand & pours it in the jar. When asked if the jar is full, most students hold back, but some say yes. Then he takes some water, pours it in & then asks the class, “What is the point of this demonstration?”  One student says that the point is that no matter how full your schedule, you can always squeeze in more things.  But that’s not the point - the point is that unless you first place the big rocks in the jar, you’ll never get them in. The big rocks are the
important things in life. If you fill your life with small things - gravel, sand & water - you will find that you never seem to have the time for the important things.

So how about a discussion on the important and not the trivial....................

Coach Dave Kerin