2000 At-Large Standards - Teams Announced (11/19/00)
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State
Cross-Country At Large Team Adds
GREAT
MOMENT FOR OUR SPORT AS A NUMBER OF
DESERVING
SQUADS ARE ADDED TO THE STATE COMPETITION
NEXT
WEEK IN FRESNO ON NOVEMBER 25TH, 2000
GIVE
CIF GOVERNING BODIES CREDIT FOR RECOGNIZING A
NEED
AND ADJUSTING THE PROCESS TO INCLUDE SOME
GREAT
TEAMS!!!!
State
At Large Additions of Teams who Beat Time Standards and the three
situations where there were more than the number of teams who would be
allowed and how they were sorted out:
FOLLOWING
SCHOOLS WILL BE INFORMED BY PHONE CALL TO COACH SUNDAY, NOVEMBER 19TH.
Division
I - 19 Automatic Team Spots from Around State (6 available in both Boys
and Girls)
Boys
Division I - 82:41 State Course Standard
6
ACCEPTED
80:44
Don Lugo - 79:32 SS -1:57
under SS Standard (5th SS)
81:26
Murrieta Valley 80:14 SS -1:15 under SS Standard (6th SS)
81:50
Santa Ana 80:38 SS -:51 under SS Standard (7th SS)
81:28
Edison (HB) 80:16 SS -1:13 under SS Standard (8th SS)
81:38
Castro Valley 88:33 NCS -1:03 under NCS Standard (3rd NCS)
81:43
Yucaipa 80:31 SS -:58 under SS Standard (9th SS)
NOT
ACCEPTED BOYS DIVISION I
81:44
Loyola 80:32 SS -:57 under SS Standard (10th SS)
82:05
Rancho Cucamonga 80:53 SS -:46 under SS Standard (11th SS)
82:39
Madera 82:39 Central -:02 under Central Standard (3rd Central Section)
NOTE:
LOYOLA WILL NOT GO, AS SANTA ANA FINISHED 7TH AND LOYOLA 10TH IN
SOUTHERN SECTION MEET, WITH RULING THAT A TEAM WITH A FASTER TEAM TIME
THAN ANOTHER WITH BOTH UNDER THE TIME STANDARD WILL NOT GO IF THAT
SLOWER TEAM HAD A BETTER PLACE IN THE COMPETITION.
Girls
Division I - 100:22 State Course Standard
6
ACCEPTED
95:55
Antioch 105:20 NCS -4:27 under NCS Standard (3rd NCS)
97:28
Thousand Oaks 96:42 SS -2:54 under SS Standard (5th SS)
97:38
Esperanza 96:52 SS -2:44 under SS Standard (6th SS)
98:26
Royal 97:40 SS -1:56 under SS Standard (7th SS)
98:21
Ayala 97:35 SS -2:01 under SS Standard (8th SS)
97:51
Fountain Valley 97:05 SS -2:31 under SS Standard (9th SS)
NOT
ACCEPTED GIRLS DIVISION I
98:25
Granada 107:50 NCS -1:57 under NCS Standard (4th NCS)
99:02
West Valley 87:32 SD -1:20 under SD Standard (3rd SD)
99:36
Castro Valley 109:01 NCS -:46 under NCS Standard (5th NCS)
99:41
Yucaipa 98:55 SS -:41 under SS Standard (10th SS)
99:50
Livermore 109:15 NCS -:32 under NCS Standard (6th NCS)
100:08
University (Irv) 99:22 SS -:14 under SS Standard (11th SS)
(ROYAL
WILL GO OVER GRANADA, AS AYALA AND FOUNTAIN VALLEY AHEAD OF GRANADA, AND
RULING THAT NO TEAM UNDER THE TIME STANDARD WILL BE KEPT FROM THE STATE
MEET IF IT DEFEATED OTHERS ON POINTS WHO ARE GOING TO THE STATE MEET BY
PLACEMENT ON A RANKED LIST OF THE STATE SCHOOLS CONSIDERED)
Division
II - 15 Automatic Spots from around State (10 available both Boys and
Girls)
Boys
Division II - (83:48 State Meet Course
Standard)
ALL
TEAMS (6) WHO BEAT SECTION STANDARD ACCEPTED
Montgomery
(Santa Rosa) NCS
Granada
(Livermore) NCS
Burbank
(SS)
Paso
Robles (SS)
Valencia
(Placentia) (SS)
Vacaville
(Sac Joaquin)
Girls
Division II (102:27 State Meet Course Standard)
10
ACCEPTED
96:58
Newport Harbor 97:03 SS
-5:29 under SS Standard (5th SS)
98:02
Clayton Valley 107:06 NCS -4:25 under NCS Standard (3rd NCS)
98:32
Brea Olinda 98:37 SS -3:55 under SS Standard (6th SS)
99:17
Ventura 99:22 SS -3:10 under SS Standard (7th SS)
99:17
Mater Dei 99:22 SS -3:10 under SS Standard (8th SS)
99:44
Santa Margarita 99:49 SS -2:43 under SS Standard (9th SS)
101:30
Carondelet 110:34 NCS -:57 under NCS Standard (4th NCS)
101:22
Ukiah 110:26 NCS -1:05 under NCS Standard (5th NCS)
101:53
Claremont 101:58 SS -:34 under SS Standard (10th SS)
101:54
Soquel 99:56 CCS -:33 under CCS Standard (3rd CCS)
NOT
ACCEPTED GIRLS DIVISION II
102:13
Trabuco Hills 102:18 SS -:14 under SS Standard (11th SS)
Division
III - 15 Automatic Team Spots from Around State (10 available in both
Boys and Girls)
Boys
Division III (84:46 State Meet Course Standard)
ALL
TEAMS (4) WHO BEAT SECTION STANDARD ACCEPTED
Campolindo
(Moraga) NCS
Acalanes
(Lafayette) NCS
Nordhoff
(Ojai) SS
Barstow
SS
Girls
Division III (101:54 State Meet Course Standard)
ALL
TEAMS (2) WHO BEAT SECTION STANDARD ACCEPTED
Acalanes
(Lafayette) NCS
Lompoc
SS
Division
IV - 14 Automatic Team Spots from Around State (11 available in both
Boys and Girls)
Boys
Division IV (85:49 State Meet Course Standard)
ALL
TEAMS (6) WHO BEAT SECTION STANDARD ACCEPTED
Piedmont
NCS
Arcata
NCS
Moreau
Catholic (Hayward) NCS
St.
Mary's (Berkeley) NCS
Yucca
Valley SS
Salesian
(LA) SS
Girls
Division IV (103:49 State Meet Course Standard)
ALL
TEAMS (3) WHO BEAT SECTION STANDARD ACCEPTED
Marin
Catholic (Kentfield) NCS
San
Marin NCS
Piedmont
NCS
Division
V (12 automatic Girls and 11 Automatic Boys Spots Around State - 13
Girls spots available - 14 Boys Spots Available)
Boys
Division V (88:52 State Meet Course Standard)
ALL
TEAMS (3) WHO BEAT SECTION STANDARD ACCEPTED
Lick-Wilmerding
NCS
Head-Royce
NCS
Webb
(Claremont) SS
Girls
Division V (112:17 State Meet Course Standard)
ALL
TEAMS (4) WHO BEAT SECTION STANDARD ACCEPTED
Convent
Sacred Heart NCS
St.
Margaret's (San Juan Capistrano) SS
Brentwood
(LA) SS
Mountain
Empire SD (Reflected adjustment in San Diego Div V Standard)
Link
to At Large Standards by Section
Link
to Explanation of "At-Large" Situation
Link
to Executive Director of CIF Jack Hayes and his bulletin with rulings on
interpetaions of the At Large Situation
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2000 At-Large Standards - Interpretations (11/16/00)
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For
your California Prep Track & Field Needs
http://www.caltrack.com
State
Interpretation for At-Large Entrants to
State
CC Meet 2000
TO:
ATHLETIC DIRECTORS
CROSS COUNTRY COACHES
FROM:
JACK HAYES
CIF EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR
DATE:
11/16/00
RE:
CROSS COUNTRY RULE INTERPRETATIONS
It has
been brought to my attention that a number of situations have the
potential of occurring at our State CIF Cross Country Meet that are not
adequately addressed within our 2000-01 Constitution & Bylaws.
Consequently, consistent with the authority granted to the CIF Executive
Director in CIF Bylaw 1107, the interpretations contained herein are
effective immediately.
CIF BYLAW 1702
AT LARGE ENTRIES
The
following two interpretations apply to Bylaw 1702
History
used in calculating CIF section team time standards
Sections
may use less than three years' history in calculating the section team
time standard if and only if a section has less than three years history
on its 2000 section championship course.
Teams
in same division from the same CIF section
When
multiple teams from the same CIF section, in the same division, meet the
time standard and are eligible for at large team consideration, points
scored in the section championship division race will take priority over
team time when awarding at large team entries.
CIF
STATE CROSS COUNTRY CHAMPIONSHIP REGULATIONS � INDIVIDUAL ENTIRES
(Printed
in the 2000-01 CIF Constitution & Bylaws (page 56) and the 2000 CIF
State Cross Country Championship Advance Information Bulletin (page 3)
Automatic
team entries plus the top five highest placed individuals (not on an
automatic team entry), per the criteria in each division, will qualify
from section to state meet finals.
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2000 At-Large Standards (11/14/00)
CIF Section Standards for Cross Country
Consideration for At-Large Entry to State Meet
Central Section - Woodward Park, Thursday, November 9th
(Central Section required no comparison figuring because their section meet is
run on the state meet course)
Boys:
Division I - 82:41
Division II - 83:48
Division III - 84:46
Division IV - 85:49
Division V - 88:52
Girls:
Division I - 100:22
Division II - 102:27
Division III - 101:54
Division IV - 103:49
Division V - 112:17
Northern Section - Thursday, November 9th
(NOTICE THAT THESE ARE ACTUALLY THE SAME AS THE WOODWARD PARK MARKS)
Boys:
Division I - 82:41
Division II - 83:48
Division III - 84:46
Division IV - 85:49
Division V - 88:52
Girls
Division I - 100:22
Division II - 102:27
Division III - 101:54
Division IV - 103:49
Division V - 112.17
Central Coast - Crystal Springs, Saturday, November 11
Boys
Division I - 80:12
Division II - 80:41
Division III - 82:44
Division IV - 83:53
Division V - 85:35
Girls
Division I - 96:24
Division II - 100:29
Division III - 99:58
Division IV - 101:55
Division V - 108:08
North Coast (Ukiah High School, Saturday, November 18
Boys
Division I - 89:36
Division II - 90:01
Division III - 92:13
Division IV - 92:38
Division V - 95:51
Girls
Division I - 109:47
Division II - 111:31
Division III - 109:13
Division IV - 111:22
Division V - 120:36
Los Angeles - Pierce College, Saturday, November 18 (Los Angeles Section sends
teams only in Division I)
Boys
Division I - 80:51
Girls
Division I - 100:51
Sac-Joaquin Section - Sierra College, Friday, November 10
(NOTICE THAT THESE ARE ACTUALLY THE SAME AS THE WOODWARD PARK MARKS)
Boys
Division I - 82:41
Division II - 83:48
Division III - 84:46
Division IV - 85:49
Division V - 88:52
Girls
Division I - 100:22
Division II - 102:27
Division III - 101:54
Division IV - 103:49
Division V - 112:17
San Diego - Balboa Park, San Diego, Saturday, November 18
Boys
Division I - 83:54
Division II - 85:22
Division III - 85:44
Division IV - 87:24
Division V - 89:50
Girls
Division I - 88:52
Division II - 91:08
Division III - 90:19
Division IV - 92:14
Division V - 95:34
Southern Section - Mt. Sac., Saturday, November 18
Boys
Division I - 81:29
Division II - 81:50
Division III - 83:21
Division IV - 84:23
Division V - 87:44
Girls
Division I - 99:36
Division II - 102:32
Division III - 101:09
Division IV - 102:42
Division V - 111:53
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When will coaches be notified as to whether their team made it to the state
meet as an at-large entry?
On the "At-Large" Entry Form for the state, it asks for a phone number where
the coach may be reached on Sunday morning between 9:00 a.m. and 11:00 a.m.
The decisions will be made and schools notified on Sunday morning.
In Reply to: How many teams qualify to state posted by unknown on November 12,
2000 at 18:14:20:
The Southern Section is allowed four teams per division, San Diego, Los
Angeles, Central, Central Coast, North Coast and Sac-Joaquin are allowed two
teams per division and San Francisco, Oakland and Northern are allowed one
team per division. All sections may enter up to five individuals per division,
but in the sections that have one team, they must finish in the top eight,
sections that have two teams, they must finish in the top twelve, and in
Southern, they must finish in the top twenty. There is also, new this year, an
"At-Large" process where sections can submit additional teams based upon time
standards.
Posted by Ken Reeves on November 12, 2000 at 14:42:58:
If the Southern Section Prelims were finals:
(The Southern Section gets 4 automatics; so, if 11 teams achieved the
standard, then 4 would go as automatics and 7 would go into the at-large
pool.)
Division 1 Boys ---11 teams qualifying for the finals achieved or exceeded the
qualifying times. In addition, 2 teams that did not qualify for the finals
exceeded the qualifying marks. These latter two teams are not eligible for
at-large consideration because only teams running in the Section finals are
eligible for the State Meet.
Division 2 Boys ---5 teams qualifying for the finals met or exceeded the
qualifying times
Division 3 Boys --- 4 teams
Division 4 Boys ---3 teams
Division 5 Boys ---4 teams
Division 1 Girls --- 11 teams
Division 2 Girls --- 13 teams. In addition, 1 team that did not make the
finals exceeded the qualifying mark
Division 3 Girls --- 7 teams
Division 4 Girls --- 6 teams
Division 5 Girls --- 6 teams
With 4 teams receiving automatic berths, that means there is a possibility of
34 Southern Section teams being considered for at large berths if times hold
for the finals. Usually, times get faster for the finals, so there is a
possibility for more teams reaching the qualifying marks.
2000 At-Large Standards (11/07/00)
George Varvas of the Coaches Alliance called me tonight. The CIF is having
the Coaches Alliance make the computations for the at-large berths. Here are
the at-large times for the CCS --
Boys Girls
Div 1 80:12 96:24
Div 2 80:41 100:29
Div 3 82:44 99:58
Div 4 83:53 101:55
Div 5 85:35 108:08
George also said that there should probably be about 7 at-large berths
available in division 1 and 10 in each of the remaining divisions.
Walt
2000 At-Large Standards (11/02/00)
Here is what Hal Harkness said in a message posted on the Coaches
Alliance
web site last night --
Published information from the State CIF and Sections has been
incorrect
regarding the 10th place time for figuring at large standards. The
proposal
that was passed by the State Federated Council included the phrase
"median
time". For D1 it should be 10th place, For D2-D4 it should be 8th
place and
for D5 it should be 7th place. This is obviously necessary because
the at
large concept is pegged to the middle of the state finishers in each
division
and since only D1 has close to 20 schools, it must be less than 10
for the
remaining divisions.
If Hal is correct, then the Crystal Springs at-large standards should
be:
Boys Girls
Div 1 82:41-2:29 = 80:12 100:22-3:58 = 96:24
Div 2 83:38-3:07 = 80:31 102:27-1:58 = 100:29
Div 3 84:46-2:02 = 82:44 101:54-1:56 = 99:58
Div 4 85:49-1:56 = 83:53 103:43-1:54 = 101:49
Div 5 88:52-3:17 = 85:35 113:11-4:09 = 109:02
If anyone spots some errors in these calculations, please pass this
information on to us through the Discussion Board.
2000 At-Large Standards (10/30/00)
I spoke to Eileen Roche this morning. She is the Events Coordinator
for the
CCS. The CCS XC meet is one of the events that she is in charge of.
Eileen spoke to the CIF office while talking to me and passed along
the
following information.
The CCS office must send to the CIF by next week the average team
time by
division and gender for the last three CCS XC finals. That is all
that the
CCS office must do. The CIF will do the rest regarding determining
who gets
an at-large invitation.
The CIF already has computed the average for 10th place in each
division by
gender for the last 3 years. This is the at-large standard for
Woodward Park.
After the CIF receives the requested information from each Section
office, it
will compute the average difference between the Section Meet and
State Meet
times for the last 3 years. It will make this computation by
division and
gender. The CIF has the times of all CCS teams and other section
teams for
the last 3 years. So, the CCS does not have to send this information
to them.
As far as Eileen knows, the CIF will not send the Section at-large
standards
(the difference between the State Meet time and the differential
computation
referred to above)to each Section. However, the CIF will meet on
11/19 to
determine how many teams have bettered the at-large standard. If
this
results in more than 25 teams qualifying for the State Meet in a
division,
then at-large teams will be eliminated based upon a comparision of
the
percentage that each team was under the at-large standard. Teams
allowed
into the State Meet as an at-large entrant will be notified on 11/19.
As per my computations, which are not guaranteed, here are the CCS
at-large
standards for the 2000 CCS meet.
Boys Girls
Div 1 82:41-2:29 = 80:12 100:21-3:58 = 96:23
Div 2 84:40-3:07 = 81:33 102:42-1:58 = 100:44
Div 3 85:32-2:02 = 83:30 103:11-1:56 = 101:15
Div 4 86:51-1:56 = 84:55 107:48-1:54 = 105:54
Div 5 92:23-3:17 = 89:06 125:05-4:09 = 120:56
Andy Chan of SHC made these computations independent of me and came
up with
the same figues except that he had 2:12 rather than 2:02 for division
3 boys
and 1:16 rather than 1:56 for division 3 girls. I have not seen the
details
of his calculations. So, I do not know whether I screwed up or he
was in
error.
If you better these standards at the CCS, do not celebrate too
quickly. The
Southern Section, which gets 4 automatics, had 12 teams under the
standard in
division 2 and not all of the top division 2 boys teams ran at Mt
SAC.
2000 At-Large Standards (10/14/00)
Section 1702 of Article 17 of the CIF by-laws states that the average
of the
10th place finishes in each division for the past three years at the
State
Meet will be used as the Woodward Park standard for each division.
Section 1702 also states that each section will compute the average
difference between its section championship times and State Meet
times for
the past three years. Subtracting or adding the difference results
in the
division at-large standard.
It has been noted in the "Discussion" section of various websites
that the
Southern Section is using a 3-year average in computing its
difference, that
the CCS is using a 5-year average in computing its average, and that
the NCS
is attempting to use a complicated 1-year average.
As per the provisions of section 1702, the SS is correctly using a
3-year
average and the CCS and NCS are using incorrect periods.
I made the CCS computation because the Coaches Alliance told me that
the
proposal was for a 5-year average and I was not aware until recently
that the
proposal was modified when section 1702 was put into the CIF by-laws.
The 5-year average difference between Crystal Springs and Woodward
Park was
2:20 for the boys and 2:30 for the girls. That is, 2:20 should be
subtracted
from the Woodward Park standard for the boys in order to determine
the CCS
at-large standard for Crystal Springs and 2:30 should be subtracted
for the
girls.
If a 3-year average had been used, then the difference would have
been 2:12
for the boys and 2:32 for the girls.
I talked to Ken Johnson in the CCS office yesterday and he said that
the
standards that I computed and that were approved by the coaches at
the
pre-season meeting had been submitted to the CIF and would be
discussed by
the CIF next week.
The difference between the 5-year and 3-year average is minor.
However,
there is another problem. The Woodward Park standards given to me by
the
Coaches Alliance were for the average of the 10th place team finish
for
division 1, 8th place for divisions 2 thru 4, and 7th place for
division 5.
Lower than 10th place averages were used because the proposed
at-large rule
was to use the lower of 10th place or the mean number of teams in a
division.
As an example, if only 14 teams competed in division 5, then the
mean would
be 7 teams.
As noted above, section 1702 simply states that we will use the
average of
10th place rather than the mean of the number of teams in the race.
Thus, it
appears that we should have used the average of the 10th place
finishes for
divisions 2 thru 5 rather than the 8th and 7th place finishes.
Obviously, if we use the 10th place averages, the Woodward Park
standards
would be slower for divisions 2 thru 5 (because the 10th place teams
ran
slower than the 8th and 7th place teams). This means that the
Crystal
Springs standards would be easier for the CCS. Right now I do not
have the
time to make the computations for the 10th place averages ( I would
have to
look up the 10th place team in each division for 3 years and then
look up the
times of their 5 runners before I could make these computations).
Maybe,
somebody in the south state has already made these computations.
In summary the at-large computations that I made are incorrect. How
much? I
do not know. Further, I have no inside knowledge on what the CIF
will do.
Will it accept the CCS computations submitted to them by the CCS
office or
will they make their own computations based upon the actual wording
of
section 1702 of their by-laws?
As shown previously this year, the CCS at-large standards submitted
to the
CIF are as follows:
Boys Girls
Div 1 82:41-2:20 = 80:41 100:22-2:30 = 97:52
Div 2 83:48-2:20 = 81:28 102:27-2:30 = 99:57
Div 3 84:46-2:20 = 82:26 101:54-2:30 = 99:24
Div 4 85:49-2:20 = 83:29 103:43-2:30 = 101:13
Div 5 88:53-2:20 = 86:32 113:11-2:30 = 110:41
Walt
This is Hank talking now. Here's another question - If a third team qualifies
because they met the At-Large standard, does that mean that those team
individuals are then taken out of the results in order to determine who the
Top 5 Individual qualifiers are? If this is so, then conceivably the "true"
6th & 7th place individuals might actually make it to State if an additional
At-Large team qualifies - make sense? Does ANYBODY know if this is in fact
true, or only that it makes good sense?
hank
2000 At-Large Standards (9/01/00)
Click here to see the pre-season State
At-Large memo.